Has anyone actually been given an estimated completion date for RT-7?

We were told (by PL) probably May 2009 but are now led to believe could be as early as March.

Confusing!

Maggie

Property Logic have gone very quiet. It seems quite well reported on various forums that there has been no building since Christmas. The latest newsletter certainly does not show anything new.

Last I heard was October 2009, I am in no rush for completion as long as there will be a completion!

As you know I have been trying to get an update on the building progress for the various plots for some time now from PL and have just received the following response:

"We would like to apologize for the delay in responding, however, Sean has been travelling extensively in the last few weeks. Please note that a full update for all owners will be coming out in the next 24 hours."

Bit of a predicament though..
I get your point about not wanting to complete to early but then the completion dates according to the contract are (remind me if I'm incorrect) 21 months from granting of building licence, with a 6 month extension.
If I recall correctly the licence was granted mid 2007.

Has anyone the actual date of the licence, with 27 months added to come up with completion date.

If the date was August 2007, then PL would need to complete by Nov 2009 at the latest.
Surely if they do not complete by Nov09 there would be grounds for monies back?

I think the biggest worry would be "money back from who!"

Dear Le Jardin de Fleur Owner,


Further to our regular newsletters, I am writing to inform you of the current status of Mediterrania Saïdia.


You may already be aware that some developmental delays have occurred in the region and as a consequence, the original time schedule allocated for the Le Jardin de Fleur resorts has been affected for the reasons outlined below.


• Some delays in the initial administrative and licensing process led to a knock-on delay to pre-agreed financing which in some cases caused the need to renegotiate agreements. It is essential that these details are processed thoroughly in Morocco to safeguard all corporate and individual investments. These issues have now been resolved as all 11 construction licenses were granted to Le Jardin de Fleur resorts last year.

• Construction contracts have been subject to renegotiation in some instances which has also led to delays. This is because Property Logic requires a high standard of construction and third-party contracts are only granted or extended when the desired quality is assured.

• The new master developer of Mediterrania Saïdia, Addoha, carried out a lengthy due diligence process since acquiring the majority stake of the master development company, Fadesa, last year. While this has caused delays in the construction of the communal facilities within the master plan, we believe it is a positive factor as Addoha has revised to a higher quality and incorporated significant improvements to the marina and golf courses.

• Within the last year, Property Logic has signed hotel management contracts with eight hotel brands to ensure the long-term rental management of Le Jardin de Fleur resorts. This means that all interior furnishings will need to be in line with international hotel resort standards as Property Logic wants to ensure the highest standards of quality are implemented. Construction progress delays have also been caused by some of the hotel operators requesting changes to clubhouse plans which then need to be resubmitted for planning authorisation.


Having discussed this situation with many clients on an individual basis in recent weeks, we have received a majority preference to extend completion dates by some months until the global credit situation becomes more stable. Property Logic anticipates delivering the fully operational Tulip Residences resort on plot RT-7 in the second quarter of 2010. In consideration of the delays, we will endeavour to accommodate owners wishing to spend their holidays in Saïdia prior to the delivery of their unit(s) in our functioning resorts. Although we cannot guarantee the availability, we will do our best to make this possible. Owners will be informed of updated timelines for all of the resorts and we will continue to send regular newsletters which are available to download in the news section of

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We would also like to inform you that Addoha announced the official opening date of mid June 2009 for the first phase of Mediterrania Saïdia at a press conference in February. This date will see the opening of the first championship golf course, the 5 star Barcelo hotel (600 rooms), the 4 star Iberostar hotel (400 rooms), the marina (with surrounding shops, bars and cafés) and the commercial centre. It is essential that the opening of Mediterrania Saïdia is accompanied by a global PR and marketing campaign for the destination to assist hotel operators in maximising reservations, which will in turn maximise rental, returns for property owners who opt into the leaseback programme.


On a lighter note, we recommend you visit

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– a recently launched website from the Moroccan Tourism Board who is in the process of promoting Saïdia as well as

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- a destination website launched by Addoha.


We would like to assure you that Property Logic is working hard with our partners to make sure Mediterrania Saïdia is a successful destination for your investment. We continue to attract strategic brand names to the area and to guarantee top quality build standards as part of our long-term commitment to you. Finally, we would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your continued understanding and support of Property Logic and Le Jardin de Fleur resorts.


Yours sincerely,


Joop Huisman
Managing Director
Property Logic

I am not sure this is going to help speed things up!

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This was PL response to me when inquiring about RT-7


"I would like to forward to you an overview of the project at present, as the construction has unfortunately not restarted as yet.



In the last six months have seen several changes in Mediterrania Saïdia, including the official opening in June of the marina, first golf course and medina shopping centre, the occupancy of the first two beachfront hotels this summer, and the appointment of Troon Golf – a world class brand to manage the Palmeral Golf course. We regard these developments as very positive for the destination; however the overall schedule for the completion of the Mediterrania Saïdia master plan by Fadesa Maroc is experiencing delays. Therefore, we do envisage the delays for completion of Le Jardin de Fleur resorts to take longer than earlier specified.



Among the reasons for delays is also the fact that the finance that we had secured for building more than a year ago is currently experiencing delays caused by the credit crunch and liquidity issues of the banks whom we had relied on to fund the works. We continue to believe that this situation can be resolved very soon and our team of directors has been travelling frequently for meetings with several important financial institutions over the last 6 months. We have no intention of ceasing our efforts to re-commence works as soon as possible and we remain very positive in our outlook and belief in the success of the project. Rather than give new dates for completion, we would prefer to provide accurate dates for delivery of projects as soon as construction re-commences, which we believe to be imminent.



Even though we have, as you know, started with the construction (all ground works and the start of the first structures), it is true that the build status has been quite slow over the past few months, whilst the delay in construction is frustrating for all concerned, we would like to assure you that your investment is safe and that Property Logic is in a favourable situation when compared to many global property development companies, who for various reasons related to debt have ceased to exist. As a company that has no debts, Property Logic’s main challenge is the speed at which it can finalise the necessary finance from the various funders – a process which was agreed in the past with the Moroccan institutions and now, since the credit crisis requires not only a large amount of administrative procedures, but also patience. The global economic downturn bringing a credit crisis has been a major factor influencing the release of funds from Moroccan financial institutions that have understandably become more prudent in light of the problems facing the banking sector in other markets. We are in continued discussion with Moroccan banks and other entities to reach a suitable financial agreement to complete this project by the new date given in late March 09 in the construction update letter and these dates are still within our sight at present.



The factors mentioned above have also caused the Moroccan mortgage market to be affected which in turn affects our clients. Whereas before it was easy to secure 70% mortgages, in the present climate it is challenging to receive a maximum of 60% and in many cases a 50% mortgage from a Moroccan bank. We believe that the situation is a temporary one, and that conditions will be more favourable once the economic climate has improved. Furthermore, Le Jardin de Fleur has chosen to partner with top quality hotel brands, who not only offer superb resort management but also the capacity to generate rental revenue through international reservation systems. This is a key factor that will provide assurance to banks that mortgage payments will be met by rental revenue and we believe that this will be beneficial in ensuring that clients’ mortgages can be granted.



Property Logic has been and intends to continue to be one of the strong players to emerge from the economic downturn. Our commitment to the future success of Le Jardin de Fleur and our commitment to clients and partners are of paramount importance.



We will continue to inform you in our upcoming newsletters of the progress of the Mediterrania Saïdia destination – which has seen maximum hotel occupancy since it opened in June 2009 and which has succeeded in attracting top brands such as Troon Golf in addition to our hotel partners. This is truly positive news in light of the downturn that has affected many other tourism markets.



We are also currently working on a new website, which will be online in November. The new website will provide you with the up to date information. In the mean time I have included the latest images from the region and site, together with our newsletter (summer 2009) in case you did not receive it at the time.



I have also included the latest images from the region and site for you to see how the area is looking at the present time, as well as, the interiors (not 100% confirmed as yet) of the Golden Tulip Residences project on RT7, to give you an idea of the quality and design features which are going be standard throughout the project. These will be ready to choose sometime during the beginning of 2010.



We at Property Logic truly believe that with the official opening of the site this summer and with more 4 and 5* hotels opening on site, as well as, the Troon Golf managed golf courses, the various restaurants and high class boutiques in the medina/commercial area and the world class marina, that this project will indeed be a new point of call in the Mediterranean area in the near future and that buyers of a Le Jardin de Fleur product will benefit greatly from their hard earned patience and trust in Morocco and the Plan Azur site of Saidia.



Finally we would like to emphasise that we understand your concern as an investor and we will do our utmost to continue to work hard for the success of the destination and to continue to communicate any updates with you.



Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further queries."

Thanks for the update; so fingers crossed for Q2 2010!

Hi all , We are new to this site but find we share your views very strongly. See below e.mail from PL last week with latest "reasons" and time scale ! It it never ending ? How do we force the issue ?
It can't go on indefinitely , Can it ??

---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you very much for your e-mail. I would like to start with wishing you a happy and healthy 2010.

Over the last six months we have seen several changes in Mediterrania Saïdia, including the official opening in June of the marina, first golf course and medina shopping centre, the occupancy of the first two beachfront hotels last summer, and the appointment of Troon Golf – a world class brand to manage the Palmeral Golf course. We regard these developments as very positive for the destination; however the overall schedule for the completion of the Mediterrania Saïdia master plan by Fadesa Maroc is still experiencing delays. Therefore, we do envisage the delays for completion of Le Jardin de Fleur resorts to take longer than earlier specified.


Among the reasons for delays is also the fact that the finance that we had secured for building more than a year ago is currently experiencing delays caused by the credit crunch and liquidity issues of the banks whom we had relied on to fund the works. We continue to believe that this situation can be resolved very soon and our team of directors has been travelling frequently for meetings with several important financial institutions over the last 6 months. We have no intention of ceasing our efforts to re-commence works as soon as possible and we remain very positive in our outlook and belief in the success of the project. Rather than give new dates for completion, we would prefer to provide accurate dates for delivery of projects as soon as construction re-commences.

However our technical and management team on site has projected at normal construction speed that it will take approximately 200 working days to complete the project. We believe the RT‑7 project is likely to be completed towards the autumn of 2010, as we believe the restart of construction is imminent.

We will make sure you will have sufficient notice to raise the final payment, by advising you when it is due well before completion.

Closer to completion we will also be sending you the leaseback agreement for the rental of your apartment. This agreement is an official notarised document which will help you with your mortgage application.

We are currently also working on a new website, which will be online soon (http://www.madein-marrakech.com/lejardindefleur/). We are now working on the English version and make adjustments to the design and structure in order to increase speed of loading. As soon as it is fully operational and ready to launch it will be transferred to the domain

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The new website will provide you with all the up to date information about the project.

I have also included the latest images from the site taken during the month of September for your information and our latest newsletter in case you haven’t received it.

We will keep you informed with further updates.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further queries.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has anyone gone down the legal route yet ?
Originally there was talk of Guarantees from the Moroccan goverment in case the project was not delivered on time but they do not appear to have come to fruition !

regards / TC

Hi,
New to this forum but agree with much of the sentiment expressed here thus far. Getting fed up with the lack of progress etc etc. Got the below in an email today from PL:

Many thanks for your e-mail. Please find a full explanation below of the up-to-date situation with Le Jardin de Fleur – Tulip Residences project on RT7 at present.

[b]In the last six months have seen several changes in Mediterrania Saïdia, including the official opening in June of the marina, first golf course and medina shopping centre, the occupancy of the first two beachfront hotels last summer, and the appointment of Troon Golf – a world class brand to manage the Palmeral Golf course. We regard these developments as very positive for the destination; however the overall schedule for the completion of the Mediterrania Saïdia master plan by Fadesa Maroc is still experiencing delays. Therefore, we do envisage the delays for completion of Le Jardin de Fleur resorts to take longer than earlier specified.

Among the reasons for delays is also the fact that the finance that we had secured for building more than a year ago is currently experiencing delays caused by the credit crunch and liquidity issues of the banks whom we had relied on to fund the works. We continue to believe that this situation can be resolved very soon and our team of directors has been travelling frequently for meetings with several important financial institutions over the last 6 months. We have no intention of ceasing our efforts to re-commence works as soon as possible and we remain very positive in our outlook and belief in the success of the project. Rather than give new dates for completion, we would prefer to provide accurate dates for delivery of projects as soon as construction re-commences, which we believe to be imminent.

Even though as you know, the construction is well under way (a little more than 50% completed), it is true that the build status has been extremely slow over the past few months, whilst the delay in construction is frustrating for all concerned, we would like to assure you that your investment is safe and that Property Logic is in a favourable situation when compared to many global property development companies, who for various reasons related to debt have ceased to exist. As a company that has no debts, Property Logic’s main challenge is the speed at which it can finalise the necessary finance from the various funders – a process which was agreed in the past with the Moroccan institutions and now, since the credit crisis requires not only a large amount of administrative procedures, but also patience. The global economic downturn bringing a credit crisis has been a major factor influencing the release of funds from Moroccan financial institutions that have understandably become more prudent in light of the problems facing the banking sector in other markets. We are in continued discussion with Moroccan banks and other entities to reach a suitable financial agreement to complete this project as speedily as possible. In consideration of the delays, we will endeavour to accommodate owners wishing to spend their holidays in Saïdia (at cut cost of course), prior to the delivery of your unit in our functioning resort of RT2 – Best Western Premier resort during summer 2010. Although we cannot guarantee the availability, we will do our best to make this possible.

The factors mentioned above have also caused the Moroccan mortgage market to be affected which in turn affects our clients. Whereas before it was easy to secure 70% mortgages, in the present climate it is challenging to receive a maximum of 60% and in many cases a 50% mortgage from a Moroccan bank. We believe that the situation is a temporary one, and that conditions will be more favourable once the economic climate has improved. Furthermore, Le Jardin de Fleur has chosen to partner with top quality hotel brands, who not only offer superb resort management but also the capacity to generate rental revenue through international reservation systems. This is a key factor that will provide assurance to banks that mortgage payments will be met by rental revenue and we believe that this will be beneficial in ensuring that clients’ mortgages can be granted.

Please find attached the introduction & contact details of an independent mortgage broker based in the UK , which has links with Moroccan banks to be able to help you secure finance in either UK or Morocco . Please note that Property Logic is only passing this on as information and has no official affiliation with Prestige Mortgages.

Our technical and management team on site has projected under normal construction speed that it will take approximately 300 working days to complete the RT-7 project. The project is one of the projects in the first phase to be financed and if we manage to resolve the finance situation shortly we are aiming to deliver the project before the end of 2010.
The attached documents (Fluxx RSS FR/EN), which were written as an open letter by the National Federation of Real Estate Promoters, supports this e-mail of the current issues with the flow of finance in the country.

Property Logic has been and intends to continue to be one of the strong players to emerge from the economic downturn. Our commitment to the future success of Le Jardin de Fleur and our commitment to clients and partners are of paramount importance.

We will continue to inform you in our upcoming newsletters of the progress of the Mediterrania Saïdia destination – which has seen maximum hotel occupancy since it opened in June 2009 and which has succeeded in attracting top brands such as Troon Golf in addition to our hotel partners. This is truly positive news in light of the downturn that has affected many other tourism markets.

We are also currently working on a new website, which will be online soon (http://www.madein-marrakech.com/lejardindefleur/). The new website will provide you with the up to date information. We are now working on the English version and also making adjustments to the design and structure in order to increase speed of loading. As soon as it is fully functional and ready to launch it will be transferred to the domain

Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum!

in the near future.

In the meantime I have included the latest images from the region and site taken during the autumn and winter last year, as well as attached the latest newsletter of autumn 2009 in case you did not receive it at the time.

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Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum!

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I hope these files are accesible. Unfortunatetly this is all the usual patter from PL and at this stage I have had enough. I have asked my Spanish solicitor to find out if I have any legal route to get my money back, either from PL or the Moroccan Govt.

Both are probably long shots but feel I have to do something.

Anyon else received any legal advice thus far?

Harryman.

According to PL two days makes a great difference - estimated completion has gone from 200 days and autumn to 300 days and the end of 2010. Every day of delay is costing them money with overheads and staff wages. They are also now in breach of their licences with the Moroccan Government and the way they have total disregard for us as investors is inexcusable. New website? What about the web cam they promised years ago which was for months about to go live. I can't see them bothering to finish myself. As they are liable for compensation for the delay to those who do want to complete and those who don't will be able to get refunds,what's the point in them continuing? They claim to have no debts - well where's their money coming from and I'd like to see their accounts!

I'm not sure whether I've missed the moment with my reply, but I've read a bit on this forum about the concerns of PL's ability to complete and the desire to force the issue by possibly asking for refunds.

I should state upfront that I'm not in any way connected with PL other than the fact that I too invested in RT7 and I would like to ask everyone to remember the solid fundamentals upon which we made our original decision. I don't believe this has changed. Morocco, and the Kingdom of Morocco in particular, has too much to lose for this first development not to succeed. This is the economic future of an entire country which is dependant upon Saidia being a spectacular success.

This development represents a unique opportunity to not only to replicate the Costa del Sol model, but also to improve upon it by some distance. Naturally, we are all a bit twitchy when the world is in recession and the domestic property market has reminded us that things go down as well as up.

But for me, I want to cut PL a bit of slack. They say that they had their funding in place and now given the extreme circumstances they are having to work to re-establish it. They are trying to present a top quality product and they have never gone quiet to the extent that they don't reply to my phone calls/emails. I, personally, would have preferred it if they hadn't taken on 11 sites, but they have managed to get plenty of good companies to partner them which says quite a lot.

I can't believe there is any merit in taking any precipitous or pre-emptive action at this stage. As I say, the fundamentals are good. If the issue is forced then we could could quite possibly destroy something which will be a truly enjoyable (and profitable) experience for us all, without realistically any chance of getting any deposits back, since as has already been said, where would the money come from?

Finally, I should say that I'm not rich, I need this to succeed and I still manage to sleep nights!

Jack

Hi Jack

Totally agree, you will find some people saying the same as you on the 'group action' thread.

Still disappointed by the lack of more pro active communication from PL though!